Smackdown: Bill McKibbon versus GOP denier

Bill McKibbon on the Bill Mahar show, proving himself to be both articulate and funny. McKibbon’s takedown of denialist nonsense is brilliant.

“What are we going to develop that replaces Iowa?”

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30 thoughts on “Smackdown: Bill McKibbon versus GOP denier

  1. louploup2 says:

    Will Cain–Does this young man really belief the BS spewing from his mouth?

    Well done, Bill McKibbon.

  2. john byatt says:

    And what sort of a conservative party does QLD have?

  3. Eric Worrall says:

    I always find predictions that global warming (if it occurs) will reduce food yields rather implausible.

    Living in the subtropics, in a place which is considerably hotter than Iowa, I can report that crop growth seems to be enhanced by warmer temperatures.

    The following snapshot of my small veggie patch were all planted around 5 weeks ago.

    You simply don’t get growth rates like that in a climate like Iowa, or like the UK, where I last tried to grow veggies.

    • john byatt says:

      next year Eric plant in April, the best season for the “sub tropics” but giving it a go is good to see, just a bit late in the yea for up here. humidity and pests will become a problem over coming weeks

    • rubber taster says:

      Perhaps your most idiotic statement yet Eric.

      Find out about the effects of increased temperature on stomatal conductance.

      Read David Lobell’s paper (you know science stuff?) re: the heat effects on African maize.

      Then come back and share with us your oh-so-clever ‘opinion’.

      • Eric Worrall says:

        Rubber, higher plant growth rates in the tropics are observable fact. Obviously not all plants like hot, tropical weather, but there are plenty of high yield food plants which do.

        We won’t starve, or even go hungry, if the world warms.

        Its a cold climate which causes crop failures from abnormal frosts, or newly marginal growing seasons.

        The following link shows how grim a shift to a colder climate can be. Thankfully this was just a taste. Next time we might not be so lucky – the Holocene must come to an end sometime. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_Without_a_Summer

        You’re like that weather forecaster who spends all day nose buried in the computer, and never looks out the window to see what is actually happening.

      • john byatt says:

        , higher plant growth rates in the tropics are observable fact. Obviously not all plants like hot, tropical weather, but there are plenty of high yield food plants which do.

        Is that why most of Australian rice wheat and corn are grown south of brisbane ?

        what are these food plants?

      • Cugel says:

        Weather forcasting does require looking at a computer all day. Looking outside at what’s happening is what a reporter might do, but weather that’s coming generally starts quite some way away.

        With regard to what’s happening outside the extra warmth and longer growing season doesn’t seem to have helped corn yields in the US mid-West this year. Is there some tropical crop which would have fared better, do you think?

      • rubber taster says:

        Eric, even your attempt at ‘science’ is idiotic.

        As I said, read David Lobell’s work and then come back and apologise for your ignorance. You’ve now scored a dunce cap on:

        – atmospheric science
        – ocean chemistry
        – botany

        Oh yes, I forgot, we’ll all live on capsicum…

    • louploup2 says:

      “I always find predictions that global warming (if it occurs) will reduce food yields rather implausible.”

      From 2007 article, http://iopscience.iop.org/1748-9326/2/1/014002:
      “For wheat, maize and barley, there is a clearly negative response of global yields to increased temperatures. Based on these sensitivities and observed climate trends, we estimate that warming since 1981 has resulted in annual combined losses of these three crops representing roughly 40 Mt or $5 billion per year, as of 2002.”

      2008: “Nonlinear temperature effects indicate severe damages to U.S. crop yields under climate change”; http://www.pnas.org/content/106/37/15594.short

      Recent news clip:
      http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/13/business/government-lowers-crop-yield-forecast-again.html

      Is the well of your ignorance bottomless? Ignorance is no excuse for stupidity.

  4. Eric Worrall says:

    Given Capsicum is currently retailing for around $10 / Kg in Coles, if I had a rice paddy north of Brisbane, I’d drain it so I could plant Capsicum.

    • john byatt says:

      Eric, so we can supply the world and everyone can live on Capsicum.

      anyone from brisbane who believes that cold in august is a problem just does not have a clue,

      frost is the only thing that will kill veg in brisbane, but many veg such as broccoli and brussel sprouts actually require a frost to initiate production

      what staple tropical plants eric, Peach palm is one, taro another

      small crop grower and supplier to brisbane market for many years.

      plant zucchini after july and watch them succumb to disease and pests you seem to have a rather spindly one next to the spindly tomato.

      • Eric Worrall says:

        Thankyou, I’ll try your growing suggestion, next time I plant sprouts.

        August did have a few frosts, which would have damaged some veg.

        Having said that, if you are an experienced farmer, as you claim, I can’t believe you find it difficult to name a list of food crops which do well in tropical conditions. Bananas, macadamias, avocados, coconuts, mango, a very long list of highly nutritious food crops.

        They might be different foods to what people in temperate conditions are used to eating, so if the world warms, our diets might have to change a bit. But we wouldn’t go hungry. The assertion that if we would somehow suffer food shortage if the world warms is nonsense.

        As the link to the year without a summer shows, we have much more to fear from a cooling climate. The year without a summer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_Without_a_Summer was only 0.7c cooler than normal, but it caused widespread death and ruin.

    • Cugel says:

      You seem to have an automatically low opinion of farmers’ business sense. Is this perhaps because you have inflated opinion of your own?

      Capsicums have been around for a very long time and yet have remained something to eat with staples (such as corn or potatoes), not a staple in itself.

  5. Cugel says:

    Before I forget, McKibben and Mahar were brilliant. Let’s hope we see much more like this as the denier-world shrinks away to its fringe of whackjob holdouts.

      • louploup2 says:

        You have the audacity to admit that to the extent vested interests are “winning” the climate debate, it is based on people being morons! Quote from the article: “Most of those who dispute the consensual conclusions of the climate scientists are not mavericks or heretics but orthodox members of a tightly knit group whose natural disposition is not to think for themselves. To dispute the conclusion drawn by climate scientists involves for them neither the open mind of the sceptic nor the cranky independence of the contrarian but the determination – psychological or political or both – to deny what those who know what they are talking about have to say. They are denialists.”

        When will you think for yourself?

      • rubber taster says:

        I’m pretty sure any ‘team’ Eric fantasises about is not one I’d want to be on.

  6. Eric Worrall says:

    louploup, I didn’t say I agreed with the author of the article. From my POV, its a paranoid rant by someone who can’t get their head around the real reason you guys are losing:- alarmists have been busted telling too many porkies, especially after the release of the Climategate archive.

    • louploup2 says:

      You’re an idiot.

    • Barry Woods says:

      I think climategate was largely irrelevant, poltically it changed at Copenhagen, with the realisation that China would continue to say get lost to kyoto, for itself, or any other agreements that impacts it’s own emissions.

      • Eric Worrall says:

        I agree that Glaciergate probably did more damage than Climategate. The only part of AR4 that China and India cared about – the destruction of their watershed – turned out to be a lie.

        In any case, we already knew alarmist scientists were cutting corners. Climategate just provided the icing on the cake – confirmation of what they were doing, in their own words. Hiding declines, telling nice tidy stories, WWF brokering deals between the CRU and CSIRO, to beef up extreme weather alarmism, to avoid embarrassment. All in there, part of the climate circus (refs available on request).

        Since China and India now know alarmists are prone to exaggeration, and will never reduce their emissions, everyone else has to do the same, or be crushed by China and India’s greater economic productivity.

    • Cugel says:

      Last I heard the SlimeItGate archive hasn’t been released, the thieves or their employers are still keeping the bulk of it secret. Are there any theories bouncing around in the denier-world as to why that is? It’s not immediately obvious, especially since there’s nothing in the stolen emails which have been released which reveals any lying or misbehaviour at all. The fact that you and your ilk still cling to the belief that there’s something damning in there is evidence of how little you’ve got left to float your faith on.

      • Eric Worrall says:

        Read the emails have you? Or are you just taking SkepticalScience’s word for it, that there is nothing naughty in the emails?

        IMO, there is no evidence in the emails that the scientists do not believe in dangerous anthropomorphic global warming. The evidence in the Climategate emails, IMO, is that they believe in global warming too much – they made up their minds before they did the science.

        As to why the remaining set of emails has not been released, I have no idea. Obviously we have speculated about the possibility there is something really juicy in the remaining emails, but I know as much about the hidden archive as you do.

  7. […] 2012/10/09: WtD: Smackdown: Bill McKibbon versus GOP denier […]

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