White noise: the denial movement is a distraction…. and the end of WtD! Generation A is coming!

I first created this blog about a year ago in a fit of wanting to “do something” about the state of the climate debate.

At its core Watching the Deniers has been about holding the denial machine accountable. I’ve watched it readership grow and the small community around it develop. I have enjoyed the debate, and seeing that my words have helped spark peoples thinking and imagination.

I don’t think I could have asked for anything more.

But I have been thinking more and more about the future of my blogging career, the climate debate and what I believe should be the focus of debate.

The one thing I’ve learnt is that the average “climate sceptic” – denier – is immune to reason, evidence and logic.

The other key lesson is that the “denial machine” comprising of the fossil fuel lobby, Institute of Public Affairs, bloggers such as Jo Nova and Murdoch/News Corp journalists will happily push disinformation onto the Australian public.

Indeed they are absolutely shameless in their deliberate deception.

And yet one thing is true about all these groups and individuals: they are a distraction.

They are white noise.

The white noise machine

Taken together, they drown out the reality of climate change and the urgent need to debate our response.

The “deniers” mask the real debate about mitigation, adaption, energy and geo-engineering. They serve to distract the public and even bloggers such as myself.

I can spend the next few years pointing out their factual errors, or do something else.

So I have a choice.

I can continue fight this vicious “war”, or participate in a more strategic and important debate.

Goodbye, farewell and amen

A while ago I made mention of the bew blog “Generation A”.

I will be focussed on that exclusively and hoping to have it launched with Tim and Megan in early May.

But I can’t do it all…

Sadly, WtD has to come to a close.

So thank you.

All of you, who have read an article, commented, Twittered it or linked from your blogs.

I have come across some wonderful people because of this blog.

I regard WtD as a success. I’m immensely proud of the work I’ve down here. I believe in a small way I’ve prompted debate and got people thinking.

Indeed, I’ve reached far more people around the globe then I imagined. Being cited in the UK’s Guardian was incredible achievement for me.

But I’m not into this for the money, fame and groupies.

Bigger, biggest… best?

As I’ve stated, this blog is created outside my working life. I had to fit it into a rather busy schedule of working, being a father and tyring to have a semblance of a social life.

So much of the writing, reading and research too place in the wee hours of the morning.

I’d be up between 5.30 and 6.00 am to begin work: reading the news feeds and other blogs, monitoring the media and then selecting, writing and publishing the day’s blog post.

I usually had about an hour and half plus to get content out and then do supplemental reading in the evening.

For those of you who have blogged, you know just how large a commitment running a blog is. It takes hard work and discipline.

But I loved every minute of it. Just simply writing something most days is rewarding. To have an audience that reads your words is deeply satisfying.

So again, thank you all.

You have my email, so please keep in touch!

But I always said I’d do it for twelve months and see where I ended up.

I could simply go on doing Watching the Deniers, and growing the audience and building up the “WtD” brand.

WtD is now pulling in thousands and thousands of hits each month. I’m getting links from other bloggers around the world…

But being “popular” is not why I started this.

I wanted to reach one person per day. That was it. That was my goal.

So I now ask myself, is WtD the thing I should be doing?

Which brings be back to Generation A.

The real debate is about adaptation and mitigation.

The debate over the reality of climate change is white noise, a distraction.

We’re unlikely to prevent serious climate change…. so we need to start thinking and planning for the future.

Not only for the sake of our communities, but for our children.

The next steps

Generation A will be about debating our responses to climate change, presenting the ideas of those thinking about adaption and investigating the plausibility of their ideas.

We want to build for the future.

We want to preserve our culture and civilisation.

So it is not the end – simply a new beginning in new form of Generation A.

So I’m going back to the idea of reaching one person per day, hoping to make them think:

“What do you think about adaptation to climate change?”

Sincerely,

Mike from WtD 

178 thoughts on “White noise: the denial movement is a distraction…. and the end of WtD! Generation A is coming!

  1. DaveMcRae says:

    I hope to read the A_Gneration soon.

    I do hope you cull the denier responses – they are becoming tiresome in the repeat of bullshit

    For me as a non climate scientist, if any one of the organisations such as CSIRO, AMOS, BOM, RoyalSoc, MetSoc, AAAS, NAS or NASA revise their position on climate change then so would I and most of us I suspect. The deniers will hate these organisation and repeat the same accusations against scientists to live in the fairy land.

    Unless you get something from a denier that is new and not recycled, please kill it – it does make the comments hard to wade through🙂. Some blogs work with scriptmonkey that allows firefox to hide posters by name – absolutely wonderful for blogs such as Deltoid, but doesn’t work on wordpress.

    Sorry for my whine

    Looking forward to the new blog. There’s been some interesting tech developments too of late.

  2. john byatt says:

    Was interested in this some time ago Ian , just how much total SLR would be restricted by ongoing inundation of the lower lying coastal areas,
    about 2%, \\Bangladesh one metre rise = 17,000 km2 flooded.

    The ten metre inundation per one metre SLR average for Australia would mean many areas experience 100 metres inundation, coastal canal developments wiped

    The courier mail story on SLR “New waterfront properties by 2100”

  3. Helen Bang says:

    I’ve just read Lester Brown’s World on the Edge. The first half of the book looks in detail at some of the problems we are going to encounter in the next few decades, and makes for pretty depressing reading. Fortunately the second half of the book is devoted to solutions.

    I’d recommend for anyone who wants to know how to deal with global warming and climate change.

  4. john byatt says:

    the difference between left wing and right wind brains,

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/04/110407121337.htm

  5. JeffT says:

    How to debunk another Byatt supported theory –

    A lot of voters voted with their feet last state election, from left wing to right wing – evidence, the massive swing to the coalition.

    Punishment for posting garbage – 24/7 listening to Tim Flannery’s predictions and ravings about Gaia.

    • JG says:

      A lot of voters voted with their feet last state election, from left wing to right wing

      And that’s your proof that AGW is a hoax?

      • JeffT says:

        No JG,
        Zero to do with AGW.

        In response @ john byatt (10:31:25) : and his listen to the psychs, left wing v right wing brains.
        And the switch from one state to another.
        The article didn’t mention the “Third State” – going Green, requiring no brain at all.

        Listening to Tim Flannery 24/7 on an endless tape loop is punishment for JB’s posting garbage.

        See, I’ve had to explain it to you.

        JT

  6. john byatt says:

    Came across this comment on the TCS blog

    Anonymous said…
    I DARE YOU TO PUBLISH SOME TRUTH on this matter.

    You liars!!!!!

    I was told outright LIES from this forum!

    Earlier it was claimed that Leon Ashby President has no connection to the Assemblies of God churches – whom some Pastors have LINKS with Steve Fielding, Heartland etc.

    Should I now get a Four Corners investigation on this link or not? I should think so.
    April 7, 2011 5:50 PM

    looking around i found that indeed this appears to be the case with Leon trying to open a youth drop- in christian centre where “evidence based videos would be shown” the local council rejected the idea as a possible propaganda centre . The AOG now CCC seem to be up to their eyeballs in the disinformation campaign ,

    • JeffT says:

      Re Johnny Byatt’s post about the TCS blog:-
      Johnny Byatt got his answer re Leon Ashby and zero AOG involvement, in the statement below the Anonymous comment.
      But Johnny Byatt wouldn’t post that, would he ?
      Just having another go at decrying TCS.

      If you want to play religious involvement, look into the Baha’i faith and it’s involvement with the UN, and global warming power brokers such as Maurice Strong and Ted Turner.
      And I haven’t even delved very deep into this angle – yet.

      Why don’t you have a good look at cleaning up your own sides disinformation – read LIES !!

      JT

      • john byatt says:

        this is pretty damming jeffro, the earlier article talks about mr leon ashby

        http://www.borderwatch.com.au/archives/2574

      • JeffT says:

        And what makes it any different to the Salvation Army and Hillsong Church that have youth groups.
        The Hillsong Church is described in Wikipedia as a Pentacostal megachurch, affiliated with Australian Christian Churches (the Australian branch of Assemblies of God.)

        If you want to save the world from this, you won’t achieve anything by attacking Leon Ashby, but as the church is worldwide, you may need an army.
        But your direction is to decrying an acknowledged Sceptic site, not the religious aspect.

        Your about as obvious as a poke in the eye with a sharp stick, Johnno.

        JT

      • john byatt says:

        You obviously have little understanding of how AOG churches operate.

        the Pastor is in effect able to go down any path he wishes if it is backed by a literal interpretation of the bible , there is no papal authority,
        Fielding has already disclosed that he believes in a very young earth and is under the control of the church hierarchy of his parish

  7. rogerthesurf says:

    I notice the owner of this blog is not publishing my comments. Was my last comment too embarrasing for him?

    Yawn oh well if he persists I suppose I will have to publish everything myself on my other blog.

    Cheers

    Roger

  8. JG says:

    JeffT: “going Green, requiring no brain at all”

    I don’t think that can be correct, since it’s obvious you’re not a Green.

    • JeffT says:

      Well JG,
      You got that bit of logic correct. I’m not a Green or a green supporter.

      But I do practice conservative practices such as self funded insulation, self funded solar hot water heating, medium capacity diesel vehicle, some LED lighting, some fluoro lighting some halogen lighting.
      So I suppose I have at least half a brain. LOL

      JT

      • john byatt says:

        No jeffro the science paper is about the right wing brain being more prone to high anxiety and thus denialism would be understandable, you cannot help it jeffro so we just have to try not to scare you to much while we explain the possible outcomes .

  9. JeffT says:

    Here you are JG and Johnny Byatt,

    Saving the planet with carbon trading – here in Sydney, let alone the rest of the world.

    http://www.smh.com.au/environment/revealed-scandal-of-carbon-credit-firm-20110407-1d6a4.html

    JT

    • john byatt says:

      google churches involved in scam, then try stock exchange etc etc ,

      then google sexual misconduct in the churches

      Assemblies of God – Becker Bible Studies Library
      They hurt the reputation of the Assemblies of God Church with the news stories and legal actions exposing their sexual scandals and their exploitations of …
      http://www.guidedbiblestudies.com/library/assemb.htm – C

      • JeffT says:

        Johnny Byatt,
        If you want to play religious accusations (which really shouldn’t be part of the climate change argument ) –
        Try looking into the connections between the UN, the Earth Summit 1992, and the Baha’i faith (One World, One Faith ), and it’s currency today.
        I’ll even suggest you have a look on Just Grounds – UN World of Weird, I just posted this morning.
        Leaves you accusations about A.O.G. in the “Wilderness”.

        JT

      • john byatt says:

        It is nothing to do with religious accusations and everything to do with world view of science, if leon is a young earth creationist then his claims regarding science must be seen in that light, No credibility,

        He does run a home biblical discussion group and maybe even produces what he calls christian evidence based videos, a strange term, evidence of what exactly?

        I believe that he is going to stick his finger into an infrared carbon dioxide laser beam next week to prove that he is correct about CO2

        .

  10. john byatt says:

    To anonomice on the TCS blog , re this comment, could not find the pastor list, any chance putting it up here, this would explain Ashby’s young earth creationist world view and how he is conning all the members at TCS

    Anonymous said…
    I DARE YOU TO PUBLISH SOME TRUTH on this matter.

    You liars!!!!!

    I was told outright LIES from this forum!

    Earlier it was claimed that Leon Ashby President has no connection to the Assemblies of God churches – whom some Pastors have LINKS with Steve Fielding, Heartland etc.

    Should I now get a Four Corners investigation on this link or not? I should think so.
    April 7, 2011 5:50 PM

  11. JeffT says:

    Johnny Byatt assumes Leon Ashby is a new Earth Creationist, because he may be a member of Assembly of God.

    That conflicts with this document on where the AOG stands on creation.

    http://ag.org/top/beliefs/Position_Papers/pp_downloads/PP_The_Doctrine_of_Creation.pdf

    Also the last time I investigated this, it turns out that ~ 46% of the US are believers in some form of New Earth creationism. The incident that caused me to investigate creationism was the result of reading that US National Parks guidelines on Creationism are printed in their guide books – to explain the Creationists views on the formation of the Grand Canyon.
    By law they must give the alternate explanation to balance the other scientific explanation.
    No I don’t believe that the Earth was created in 4004 BC.

    JT

    • john byatt says:

      We are not talking about some form, but specifically of young earth creationists eg, AOG, eg Steve fielding

      Most pentecostals are fundamentalists, believing that the bible is perfect and true, the only source of truth. I did not know a single Assembly of God believer who was not a young-earth creationist who believes dinosaurs roamed this planet a few thousand years ago. They believe in the non-metaphorical existence of demons and Satan (who, according to the book of Revelation, is a seven-headed dragon) who are roaming the earth luring vulnerable souls into evil. They believe in a historical talking snake and donkey, and in the existence of witches, wizards, and evil creatures that can infect not only an unlucky individual but an entire geographical region, which must be purged by prayer.”

      from an ex AOG member

    • john byatt says:

      That 46% have a large percentage of climate change deniers, much like yourself,

    • JG says:

      The incident that caused me to investigate creationism was the result of reading that US National Parks guidelines on Creationism are printed in their guide books – to explain the Creationists views on the formation of the Grand Canyon.

      That report proved to be, in essence, an urban legend.

  12. john byatt says:

    jeffro, are your sure that you wish to enter a debate discussing pollution from coal and oil versus wind and solar , google gulf oil Deepwater Horizon to get a start.

  13. john byatt says:

    Jeffro, the whacko conspiracy theorist, and christian fundamentalist?

    http://agmates.ning.com/forum/topics/un-world-of-weird

    jeffro’s weird world

    • JeffT says:

      Ho ho Johnno Byatt,
      Put your attack dog back in it’s kennel. (zip up your fly)
      Realise that the links are the story, not my postings.
      That is why I headed it “UN World of Weird”. I knew of the connections but had never delved into it before.

      When the links such as the Baha’i newsletter are real,
      the videos of Rio Earth Summit 1992 are real, your argument runs out of legs.

      Christian fundamentalist my RR’s !
      Agnostic, is my direction, if I must show a direction, it also makes me a sceptic.
      I also respect other people’s beliefs, something you apparently want to dabble in.

      Sorry little Johnny Byatt, it is that weird, and I’m not a conspiracy theorist, in fact I have fun debunking conspiracies, – being a sceptic.
      This one is not debunkable, it is real.

      JT

      • john byatt says:

        can’t you hutchos come up with any other name than geoff ?

        Hutchesson G T & J I
        (02) 6585 5394
        8 Elizabeth St
        Bonny HillsNSW2445

        relie ?

  14. JeffT says:

    Johnny Byatt,
    Here’s some “science” for you –

    http://www.arkofhope.org/

    Just the facts man, just the facts.

    JT

  15. john byatt says:

    I will use your real name now Geoff T, ” I loved “this is not a conspiracy theory, this is real ” right on cue

  16. john byatt says:

    http://www.portmacquarieindependent.com.au/wordpress/?p=802

    stan the man reckons you are a loony geofft

    Claims too radical
    We now have a regular batch of climate sceptics being published in this newspaper, some are locals such as Bob Donaldson, Don Campbell, Geoff Hutchesson, some are more remote radicals such as Steven Beck, Ian Holford and Leon Ashby.
    On climate science, these individuals have collectively attempted to disrepute the reporting of The United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (a document collaborated by 2500 scientists), the weather reporting of NASA and Australia’s own Bureau of Meteorology.
    If the sceptics don’t believe these credible sources, then they are plainly not interested in the truth.
    We have both of our major political parties in Australia, and the cross benches, with meaningful climate policy.
    We have the beginnings of international agreement to limit emissions.
    We have the beginnings of significant reductions in carbon emissions in Australia via energy reduction measures, feed-in tariffs for renewable energy and a proposed pricing of carbon that will give further incentive to the big polluters to reduce their emissions.
    There are some great things happening at governmental, business, community and individual levels on effective climate action.
    There are lots of doers out there making real change, and the climate sceptics are just not part of the solutions in any way, shape or form.
    Get out of the way climate sceptics, there is a job to be done!
    Stan Perc

  17. john byatt says:

    OH looky our electronics genius is the local TV repair man ,

    Coastradio
    Television Repairs, Service & Installation – Bonny Hills, NSW
    8 Elizabeth St, Bonny Hills NSW 2445, Australia
    (02) 6585 5394

    • JeffT says:

      Just part of my business ol’ fella, the one that paid the bills, for 35 years.
      When you live in semi rural, you have be versatile, including design and manufacture, sales and backup.
      You missed the satellite system installation and service, specialist long line antenna system installation, design and installation of multiple residence distribution systems, and industrial electronics repair.
      Now part of history. That’s an old entry.

      Looks like if you like to play outing, two can play at that game. I bet a lot of the sites you’ve poked your frame into would love your ID, Phone number and address, personal and employment history posted. Unleashed, Just Grounds, TCS, so easy to find.
      Coming soon – My next project Johnno. Just look for an old bloke with a laptop and a new Telstra business Wi-fi modem. And you know I spend a lot of time and effort researching subjects.

      And Stan Percy is a wanker, that has since been put down by others without my help. Get up to date and read the latest Independent.
      Like you, he has been drinking the Green Koolaide.

      JT

      • john byatt says:

        Geofft , gefff b already put my name and address and phone number up at TCS , gave it to a sociopath by the name of ridley ,

        Okay you were a cable guy as well and all operating out of your backyard shed ,

      • john byatt says:

        semi rural, bonny hills, pull the other one

  18. john byatt says:

    complaints about coastradio tv repairs port macquarie

  19. john byatt says:

    geofft memory lapse of the day

    at just grounds geofft “lookout , beware , they are coming

    For an informative video on Baha’i, this video from Supreme Master TV
    http://suprememastertv.com/bmd/?wr_id=765&page=1

    geofft ” i respect all religions”

    • JeffT says:

      Out of context little Johnny B., as usual.

      Read the whole post I posted on Just Grounds,
      Titled – UN World of Weird.
      While investigating the links between the UN and the Baha’i faith, I have come across some very weird stuff. This includes Maurice and Hannah Strong and Al Gore with a lot of well known Hollywood actors and personalities.

      http://c5c5c5.wordpress.com/2011/03/08/the-u-n-meddling-with-religi

      This page is huge, with enough links to fill in a weekend or two.

      Lots of links at the foot of the page on the above site, on the UN meddling with religion.

      Amongst it is Agenda 21 and all the One World, One Religion stuff.

      From an official Baha’i newsletter:-

      http://info.bahai.org/article-1-8-1-20.html
      Baha’i Topics

      And to show that we have more of this to come:
      http://www.wecf.eu/download/2010/06/CallforWomensParticipationinRio

      Baha’i Rio+20

      For an informative video on Baha’i, this video from Supreme Master TV

      http://suprememastertv.com/bmd/?wr_id=765&page=1

      Who else but S.M. ?
      ———————————————————
      Now that it is posted here, let’s see if you can misreport or distort it.
      You wrote:
      “at just grounds geofft “lookout , beware , they are coming”
      You lied.

      You copied out of context:
      “geofft ” i respect all religions”

      You effectively lied, the statement was-
      – I also respect other people’s beliefs, something you apparently want to dabble in.

      You don’t like my linking Supreme Master TV with the Baha’i faith and the UN organisations such as UNEP.
      But it is documented, use the links.

      Bonny Hills was semi rural, the reason I moved here, now the cow pastures have been built on. A similar situation to Sanctuary Way, Cooloola Cove, except “the rising sea level” ain’t gonna get me. Isn’t that a creek (water level) at the foot of your block ?

      JeffT

  20. JeffT says:

    Ah well Johnny Byatt,
    So far:-
    J.M. Byatt
    11 Sanctuary Way
    Cooloola Cove Qld 4580
    Ph (07) 5488 0836

  21. john byatt says:

    well you managed the TCS geoffb posing of my details, so i will give you something more to go on

    RAN
    Viet Vet
    Civil Aviation
    cattle station
    orchards , tropical fruits manager
    public relations rare fruit council of australia
    Slow combustion wood heater, cheap ones for the poor
    native forest tree nursery propagator and corridor regeneration
    service stn prop.
    retail Oil industry , BP australia and Ampol
    Health and safety accounting

    then a few things that occupied my spare time , volunteer work

    all while you were sitting in your shed with your soldering iron

    • JeffT says:

      You’re really an unstable character,
      Besides your RAN and Vietnam service, for which I respect you for, you’ve been everywhere man.
      At least I have a profession, resulting from many years of training seminars, technical college and years of electronics training with PMG/Telstra.

      I didn’t need Geoff B’s assistance, I did it all by myself in less than 10 minutes. And you started this stupid breach of privacy and outing, without thinking of the consequences.

      “Sitting in my shed with a soldering iron” – fairly rare these days. Try halfway up a mountain chasing lightning damage on a long line cable system. – Good money, good exercise and a challenge.
      Or planning, selling and installing $20k worth of of PA equipment.

      But these days I have enough time to take a political stance, so encourage me to be as aggressive as possible, by your actions. That’s why I love carbonistas, gives me a good reason to be political.

      JT (that’s a signature)

      • john byatt says:

        You are certainly a super sleuth GeoffT only having “John byatt’ to go on,
        Jefft Hutcho by comparison was easy,

        not much life experience Geofft !

        20 year old kids install satellite TV and broadband systems geofft,

      • Ross Brisbane says:

        Fair game Jeff. You are really a silly stupid old man. The dumb things you go on about.

        Lets set the record straight: There was a recent healing (signs and wonders) campaign run by a mother church AOG in SA. Leon Ashby SAME MOBILE NUMBER is listed as being part of another outreach service/s that were being held. The record of this and the censorship played out on the Climate Skeptics site is very clear.

        I WAS LIED TO.

        Leon holds to a science binge of scepticism and I have no doubt some of this self righteous bible indignation stems from a very twisted theological idealogical bent. He then becomes president of the Sceptics Party Australia. Links to Heartland, Creationism and Fielding.

        But bible belching stupid Pastors (there are good ones amongst the loony* few) from this profile of Christianity get caught up in the stupidest things at times.

        * sometimes the loonies get power executive power in the Australian branches of the AOG organisation. Like there silly idea of Family First Party – utterly ashamed of them and the damage they did.

        They are on wrong foot as you are on this one world government gibberish. You may as well be speaking in Tongues as sign to an unbeliever you troubled old man.

        On another track: Spencer – a mildest creationist will NOT go beyond anything that is greater then 100,000 years as science involvement or study – the list goes on and on. Christy’s in the same boat.

        You want logic used to break you out of your stupor read on……..

        http://bbickmore.wordpress.com/about-this-blog/

        Plain and simple you yourself are an ABUSER of science.

        Rant over………………

    • JeffT says:

      Amazing what you can achieve with a GetUp rent-a-crowd.

      Yes I have seen the “call to arms “, blogs and twitter.

      JT

    • JeffT says:

      @ john byatt (21:20:00) :

      “20 year old kids install satellite TV and broadband systems geofft,”

      Anyone with a drill and a spanner can “install” this gear, some Austar installers have previously been butchers and plumbers, but they don’t have to design the systems to integrate the whole installation.

      And following up “20 year old”, and tidying up the ‘birdsnests’ they can create, is a real challenge. The difference between a professional and a mechanic that results from very reduced training.
      One of my suppliers run a photo database on stuffed up installations that we find in the process of cleaning up others stuff ups.

      I have nothing to do with broadband, that’s for cable pullers.

      As far as all the B/S about chasing up personal and business info, all I can ask you is why ?
      You started it, it has accomplished nought, and just goes to show how much trust anyone should place in the carbonistas. – Bluudy none !

      I could have used a completely obscure ID, which many do, including here on WtD. I also could have used a completely different IP address, which I do have, and also I can change my current IP address, via restting my router. But I foolishly trusted you lot. Now I can add that to my “life experience”.
      JT

  22. john byatt says:

    The USA tearing itself apart

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/04/09/3186870.htm

    a few more cuts and the chinese will be laughing all the way to the renewables bank while america allows the ongoing poisoning of their own population,

    • JeffT says:

      Maybe they could cut off the piece called California and send it over to the Chinese.
      All the business has already gone to China, due to charges and unreliable green renewable energy.
      They have to buy electricity from neighbouring states, with hydro from Nevada and coal power from others. Fans don’t supply baseload.
      However they may be saved – CARB’s AB32 has been blocked. Now that they have got rid of the Job Terminator, with his connections to the Kerry/ Heinz, things might even get better.

      JT

  23. JeffT says:

    Weather from Wunderground for Greenland 8/4/2011

    http://www.wunderground.com/wundermap/?lat=69.47297&lon=-53.52539&zoom=4&type=hyb&units=metric&pin=Aasiaat,%20Greenland&plat=68.70000&plon=-52.75000&rad=1&rad.num=1&rad.spd=25&rad.opa=70&rad.stm=0&rad.type=N0R&rad.type2=&rad.smo=1&rad.mrg=0&wxsn=1&wxsn.mode=tw&svr=0&cams=0&sat=0&riv=0&mm=0&hur=0&fire=0&tor=0&ndfd=0&pix=0&dir=0&ads=0&tfk=0&ski=0

    You keep on telling us that the Greenland icecap is melting and about to slip into the sea. Not this week Johnny Byatt, unless you believe Hansen.
    Ice does melt at around 0deg C doesn’t it ? Check the station data for Greenland.

    And the Gulf of Bothnia and the Gulf of Finland are still choked with sea ice, and it’s April 8th – halfway through the NH Spring.

    JT

    JT

    • john byatt says:

      Of course you would miss the point

      Warming was greatest in Winter (December-February), with temperatures 3.8°C to 8.8°C above the 1971-2000 baseline. The only cooler-than-normal air temperatures were in the winter in east Greenland and are not statistically significant. Winter warming is relevant to increased summer melt because warmed snow or ice volumes require less heat to be brought to the melting point. Under these conditions, melt onset occurs earlier than normal and the snow cover duration is shorter. This leads to a lower average albedo earlier in the summer, allowing for a greater absorption of solar energy, more melting and higher temperatures, especially on land once snow cover is completely melted and exposes bare (dark) land. The “ice-albedo” feedback, responsible for amplified warming in the high latitudes is clearly operating here. A pattern of “polar amplification” of warming has been evident in surface air temperature records for decades (Hansen and Lebedev, 1987).

    • JeffT says:

      @ john byatt (00:34:33) :
      Your question –
      “Who owns Nevada hydro Geofft?”
      Nevada Hydro is owned by California,

      But the statement was that California buys it power from out of state,
      Hydro –

      Source – Wilipedia Hoover dam electricity generation distribution
      Area———————————- Percentage
      Metropolitan Water District of Southern California 28.53%
      State of Nevada————————— 23.37%
      State of Arizona————————– 18.95%
      Los Angeles, California—————— 15.42%
      Southern California Edison Company———- 5.54%
      Boulder City, Nevada———————– 1.77%
      Glendale, California———————— 1.59%
      Pasadena, California———————– 1.36%
      Anaheim, California———————– 1.15%
      Riverside, California———————– 0.86%
      Vernon, California————————- 0.62%
      Burbank, California———————— 0.59%
      Azusa, California————————– 0.11%
      Colton, California————————- 0.09%
      Banning, California———————— 0.04%

      Of output of 2080 MW.

      The statement was not who owns the electricity source, it was that it was sourced from out of state.

      Hoover Dam/Lake Meade/ Colorado river is LOCATED on the border of Nevada and Arizona.

      What would your response be if the source was owned by a foreign corporation ?
      JT

      • john byatt says:

        Your logic on this is scatter brained as usual,
        you are saying that to be credible, all power must come from within some artificial drawn line on a map instead of using the least emitting source possible,

        “National grid” is the way of the future, one day QLD may be able to supply lots of Solar, SA and Vic, lots of wind, your parochial thinking is the past.

      • JeffT says:

        As usual, give Byatt some data that is irrefutable, and he counters with the usual abuse.
        Like this load of crap:-

        {Your logic on this is scatter brained as usual,
        you are saying that to be credible, all power must come from within some artificial drawn line on a map instead of using the least emitting source possible,

        “National grid” is the way of the future, one day QLD may be able to supply lots of Solar, SA and Vic, lots of wind, your parochial thinking is the past. }
        ——————————-
        – has nothing to do with California and where the power originates from, ” scatter brained as usual, ” applies to your answer (as usual).

        The subject was the origin of electrical base load power in California, where they do not physically have any power generation besides “renewable sources”.

        Stay on subject and take your medication.
        JT

  24. JeffT says:

    This one you’ll love Johnny Byatt:
    From Estonia, note the date 7/4/11

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/9450807.stm

    JT

  25. john byatt says:

    NSIDC arctic sea ice extent for march 2011

    http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/

    second lowest march extent on record behind 2006,

    • JeffT says:

      Soooo,
      You lot are trying to tell us it getting close to flatlining.

      Check out this item from NASA 2007, explaining sea ice loss due to unusual winds and the resultant ice flows out of the Arctic.
      http://www.nasa.gov/vision/earth/lookingatearth/quikscat-20071001.html

      Then check out PIPS 2 Ice Flow diagrams for this period up to 2011

      Look at a less BIASED source than NSIDC.
      http://www.ijis.iarc.uaf.edu/en/home/seaice_extent.htm

      Or you could always look at PIPS 2 for ice thickness comparison
      March 2010/2011
      Slightly lower extent, greater ice thickness in 2011.

    • JeffT says:

      Then how come the article on Estonia about sea ice roads was valid and reported on the BeeB.
      Sea ice roads – roads formed to drive a vehicle over.
      If you haven’t read the article, I suggest that you do.

      Better go back and ask James Hansen about that.

      Take your meds and have a good lie down.
      JT

      • john byatt says:

        G2 Geofft , How you manage to find a contradiction between the two articles “How come the article on Estonia sea ice roads was valid?
        and “second lowest March extent of arctic ice” i simply have no answer for, you are beyond any hope of engaging in a sane discussion,

        Second lowest in the record does not translate into “no arctic sea ice”

        speechless!

  26. john byatt says:

    The amazing logic of geofft,

    Reply by Jeff T Hutcho 1 day ago
    I wonder if the ubiquitous Dr Tim Flannery can pin Climate Change on this finding reported in Scientific American.

    “The discovery that some Antarctic ice sheets grow from the bottom surprises scientists”
    [ Scientific American ]

    – “refreezes when it passes under thinner parts of the ice sheet that are less insulated from cool surface temperatures.”
    Well, well, – the Antarctic ice getting thicker in parts.
    The Antarctic is freezing up nicely, thank you Tim, and the sea ice is growing daily.

    JT

    • JeffT says:

      You didn’t read the S.A. article did you ?
      Just did the equivalent of gum flapping.

      Take your medication, have a good lie down.
      JT

      • JeffT says:

        And as it appears that all the other watching themselves as deniers have departed, leaving just you and moi, it’s about time moi left you to play with yourself.
        An audience of one, and that audience too will soon depart from you.

        Enjoy. And don’t forget your lithium.

        Hoo Roo,
        JT

      • john byatt says:

        Geofft “You didn’t read the S.A. article did you ?”

        ““The discovery that some Antarctic ice sheets grow from the bottom surprises scientists”

        THE LEAP

        “Well, well, – the Antarctic ice getting thicker in parts.”

        something is getting thicker,

        .

  27. Nescio says:

    Sorry to hear this blog is closing down. Enjoyed the articles, as you know. Of course, I will follow you at the new spot anyway. As usual I won’t be shy in linking to your stories🙂

    Good luck

  28. Nescio says:

    Apparently I am not allowed, without invitation, to read your new project. Am I worthy enough to be trusted with the key to the castle? If so, you may send details to my e-mail.

    Cheers

  29. Well from skimming this discussion I can understand why you might want to pull back and seek more productive pastures.
    I’ve enjoyed this blog and congratulate you on your success here at WtD, sorry to see it pass on, but better days are in the offing.

    Mike,
    Best of wishes for Generation [A]daption and see you on the flip side.

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